Transcript:Post-finale Chat with the Exandria Unlimited Calamity Cast - Twitter Spaces

The following is an archived recording and transcript of the post-finale Twitter Spaces chat with the cast of Exandria Unlimited: Calamity hosted by Critical Role Productions on June 22, 2022 at 1:00pm PT. The discussion included Luis Carazo, Aabria Iyengar, Brennan Lee Mulligan, Marisha Ray, Sam Riegel, and Travis Willingham. The original Space (see archived link) was available for thirty days after airing.

Transcript
MARISHA: Well, hello, hello, hello! ExU Calamity crew! What is up?

TRAVIS: 'Sup?

LUIS: E'erybody!

SAM: How does this work?

(laughter)

TRAVIS: Well-oiled machine!

(laughter)

BRENNAN: Y'know—

MARISHA: Attempting Twitter Spaces. Again!

SAM: Um, would it be super douche-y of me to be Peloton-ing while we do this?

(laughter)

TRAVIS: Oh my god.

AABRIA: I better never hear you sound even a *little* bit out of breath.

SAM: (considering sounds) Okay.

MARISHA: What what ride are you doing? Maybe others can join.

SAM and AABRIA: Oh!

SAM: That's a good idea.

(laughter)

SAM: This is what the people tuned in for, but I'm gonna do a Tunde ride.

MARISHA: Tunde is pretty great.

AABRIA: That's amazing.

SAM: What do we do now? Who's asking the questions, and how do we answer them?

LUIS: Right?

MARISHA: Uh, well, I will be asking the questions. I will be your moderator for today. Um. Because apparently I was the best choice. So here we are.

AABRIA: You got this baby. I believe in you.

BRENNAN: Thank you so much, Marisha. We appreciate it.

MARISHA: Oh, thank you, guys. Well, uh, I guess let's get started. We're gonna be talking all things ExU Calamity-related today. For those of you who— Hopefully everyone here is caught up, that is listening to this, because y'know there will be spoilers if you're not. But, I can start off by saying that holy shit! This was without a doubt one of the craziest, most inspiring storytelling experiences that I have ever had. And I mean just everybody with the cast was incredible, all the chemistry at the table, and then of course our amazing Dungeon Master Brennan Lee Mulligan.

AABRIA: (cheers)

MARISHA: Woo! Who got to play in Exandria and really kind of forge a lot of a new point in time in history that we really only knew a little bit about. Um, yeah. So I— I guess kind of question for the cast, for those, y'know, for all of you who are familiar with The Calamity before, y'know especially like Travis and Sam and other Critical Role cast members. How has your perspective changed on The Calamity since playing a character who has lived during it?

SAM: Great intro, Marisha. Great job hosting so far.

MARISHA: Thank you, thank you. We're three minutes in. There's still— Don't congratulate me yet.

SAM: I'll, uh, I'll, I'll— I'll just introduce myself also. Hi, I'm Sam Riegel. I'm one of the players on ExU Calamity.

MARISHA: Oh, shit! Should I have done that?

AABRIA: Oh, snap!

SAM: Maybe? I don't know.

MARISHA: I'm Marisha Ray! Hi!

MARISHA and AABRIA: (laughter)

SAM: Well, we got you and me.

MARISHA: Great.

SAM: I was really impressed with— Y'know, when we hear "The Calamity", when we hear the words "The Calamity" from Matt in the past, it just seems like not a *fictional* event, but something that was totally disconnected from anything that we were doing. And it seemed ancient and mythological and— Just playing in that era as a character who lived and breathed and felt and had goals and ambitions was so cool. And it made it made The Calamity more real, I guess, to me. And it feels like I know the Age of Arcanum now, I know what The Calamity is. And it just made the whole thing, I don't know— It made sense of everything that I've heard from Matt for the past seven years, which was really cool.

TRAVIS: Yeah! I would add to it I always love situations where everything is terrible. Like, there's no— there's really no way to mess up The Calamity because—

SAM: This is Travis Willingham talking.

TRAVIS: Oh!

AABRIA: I was gonna say, "Who are you?"

TRAVIS: I'm Travis Willingham! Player in ExU Calamity and sole survivor! Spoiler alert! What's up?

MARISHA: That's true.

TRAVIS: I had a— I loved it because, y'know, it just feels like— it just feels like you can kind of you go for broke and whatever you want to do because it's all going to be really bad at the end. But I was really surprised at how, just how deep the stories were. The characters were so rich. I've told Sam and Aabria and Luis this a ton of times, but I got caught looking just a bunch. Like just sitting at the table and staring at the people to my— well, I was at the end, so all to my right. I was just taken with how engaged everyone was and the story that Brennan was weaving. Y'know, I was a fan before, but now I'm an elite subscriber to Brennan Lee Mulligan. I'll tell you that much.

BRENNAN: Aw.

MARISHA: Oh yeah. Do you have special emojis that go with that, Brennan?

BRENNAN: To special emojis to throw into the chat, in terms of like having destroyed the world and had the honor of— had the honor of taking Matt's incredible mythology and getting to inflict it on some of my favorite people in the world?

AABRIA: Incredible, that's the right word.

BRENNAN: Incredible! Yeah, I think the emoji would be, y'know, the mind blown head explode one. And then maybe the little party hat blowing a party blower once? I like that one a lot. That one's just— that one's a personal fave. That's my normal mood.

AABRIA: And, Brennan, introduce yourself. Who are you?

BRENNAN: Hi! I'm Brennan Lee Mulligan.

TRAVIS: God, we suck at this.

AABRIA: Second.

MARISHA: Maybe Aabria should've moderated this.

AABRIA: (laughing) No!

MARISHA: This is better.

AABRIA: You're the heckle, baby!

BRENNAN: No, it's good. Well, it's— I like it. I think it's, I think we're all being very respectful and we know that cross-talk will be completely untenable within this format. So, everyone's just being like, "Hello, and yes, and here's a contribution. You're welcome." Yeah, absolutely unreal. The, I think, that like— There was a big, there was a big part of this of kind of getting to feel like Matt's... Like, in a weird way, Matt has been like putting forth The Calamity, and how enormous it was, and how, y'know— For something to be a thousand years in the past, which for us is you know past the level of like, y'know, the majority of the Crusades. Y'know this is like ancient, ancient history, but how much those reverberations are still felt in modern Exandria. So there did feel like kind of a Good Cop Bad Cop, where you know Matt's been spending years saying, "This was as bad as it gets world changingly, cosmically reorderingly bad." And then to come in and be the bad cop and be like, "Well, y'know, you should have listened to the nice man when he told you this was quite bad because here we go." It was it was a joy and an honor and really a profound privilege. What a fucking hoot. What a sad, sad hoot.

AABRIA and MARISHA: "What a sad hoot."

AABRIA: I do like that it feels like it re-contextualized modern Exandria and everything in the modern campaigns just by virtue of the like, the be— Oh, sorry. Hi, I'm Aabria, a player. I did not survive.

TRAVIS: Oh, nice catch.

MARISHA: Nailed it.

AABRIA: I failed my first time. Yeah, but just by virtue of the way Brennan painted the Age of Arcanum, it really shows you, like, the level of technology and the level of, like, society and magic that, like, Campaign 3 is playing through right now. Feels, in a very interesting way, a little post-apocalyptic. Like, oh you guys don't have like a giant waterfall with desaturated Sam's face on it every day? How weird! How weird and sad and bad for you! And I just think that's maybe my favorite little bit, is that yeah the world feels more informed now that we saw what it was like a thousand years ago.

MARISHA: Yeah, absolutely. You took the words right out of my mouth, that y'know I don't think it was fully clear that we are living in kind of a post-apocalyptic Exandria and knowing what was there and what has been lost. But that also kind of gives that excitement to know that there's still just so much more to be discovered with Exandria.

BRENNAN: To jump into a lot of this like— That image of the world, that like highly technological vision of the Age of Arcanum is directly from Matt. Like you can see, like obviously in Campaign 2, the exploration of Aeor, we're seeing it through the lens of this ancient horrifying archaeology. But even the sort of bureaucracy that was that was prevalent in the world building in Aeor, y'know I went and asked Matt and when we were like first doing the creative side of Calamity, I was like, "So, if this is the ancient past, do you want to signal that in some—" Like, one of the things I pitched was like, I was like, "Should people be wearing like sort of sandals and togas and stuff?"

TRAVIS: Aye.

BRENNAN: Like, how do you sort of depict antiquity, pre-Middle Ages, right? And Matt was very clear where he was like, "No, this is like tech-no-lo-gy." It's like much more like a sort of modernist version of this ancient past where, again, like magic is technology, meaning that it is like simultaneously deeply taken for granted but absolutely essential. Like, it is everywhere and completely disregarded but at the underpinning of all things. Really, so that was like a very clear directive that does paint all of modern Exandria in a very stark light.

SAM: I want to hear more of your pitches to Matt that didn't get through.

BRENNAN: (laughing) Yeah.

MARISHA: Oo!

BRENNAN: I was like: all togas, all hydras. It's just Ancient Greece. We're just gonna do— But, no. But it was like, like going through that part of it was fascinating because there's I think there's a very interesting idea in terms of... So, in these fantasy worlds, I feel like whenever you go into the ancient past, there's always a little bit of care that you have to tread with because so many tropes of fantasy are inherited. And as you remake fantasy worlds anew, and you take some but not the others of those, it has to be like really careful, right? You'd be very careful with it. Like if you think about how much of, like, high fantasy worldbuilding's inherited from Tolkien, there's parts of Middle Earth that are just bonkers, right? Where it's like, "This sword is the greatest sword of all, and it was forged 10,000 years ago!" And in your head you're like, "Oh cool!" And then you think, "No one's improved on swordmaking in ten *thousand*...? How is every blacksmith not just like mind-bendingly depressed?" Like, I don't know man they knew something back then, they didn't write it down. We're just screwed, right? Weirdly, I feel like— I feel like Matt's worldbuilding weirdly improves on that in a big way, where it's like... It— Where it literally is like: No, no, no. There was this height of achievement, and it didn't— just, you know... It's like it ended because there was a centuries-long god war that obliterated the planet, and some of the only surviving bastions of civilization that are left were like Vasselheim, that of course culturally became incredibly critical of arcane magic. And now we see, centuries later, that skyships are coming back, and these things are coming back, because there's— I feel like Matt addresses the rise and fall of technological magecraft really well and realistically within the timespan of Calamity and Divergence and post-Divergence.

MARISHA: Yeah, that is—

AABRIA: I will say— Go ahead.

MARISHA: Oh no, you go.

AABRIA: I just wanted to say my— The most important thing when making Laerryn was wanting to prove Vasselheim right. Like, they are critical of arcane magic, and I wanted to be, like, I want to be why.

(laughter)

AABRIA: That's all I wanted to say because I remember hearing that, like, in Campaign 1 when I was watching it for the first time, because I was a Critter from way back, and being like, "oh man, what kind of person gets a whole city to be like... Really? It was a thousand years ago, and we're still kind of burned up about it."

TRAVIS: Yup.

MARISHA: Well, that's actually a great jumping off point for kind of a next question. Y'know, we all knew that there was this story was going to end, and some sort of fiery, horrific ruin. We just didn't really know how it was going to happen. But I mean, y'know, there was still a ton of player agency for all of us. None of us, y'know, or at least not to speak for everybody, but I didn't feel railroaded or like my hands were tied, and being forced into choices that I didn't want to make. Like did anyone anticipate that their actions would have been the one to, like, potentially start The Calamity? And then kind of conversely, Brennan, did you expect a different kind of trigger? I mean, and triggering is even kind of a weird way to put it, because I think after playing it, it was clearly defined as a series of events and a series of choices not even relegated to that last 24 hours in Avalir, but going back hundreds of years that kind of all slowly led to this moment. But, yeah, what are— Who has any thoughts on that?

TRAVIS: I want to hear from Luis, first of all and introduce yourself, sir.

MARISHA: Agreed! Luis, go!

LUIS: Ah! Hi, everybody. I'm Luis Carazo. What are we doing? Huh, what? Um... Oh man. I didn't— I didn't know anything. I felt like I... In hindsight I'm like, "Damn. What? What?" I was surprised by so much. I knew— I knew the setting, and I knew The Calamity was coming. I didn't expect initially that we were going to be a part of its initiation in any way. I was anticipating dealing with the onslaught of the, y'know, evil things and then trying to defend whatever could be defended. But I knew that I wanted to explore an Oath of Redemption paladin in this setting with a potential confrontation with a Betrayer. And I wasn't even sure that we would encounter them. I didn't know where we were in the timeline, but I hoped and I asked for it. I was like, "I'd like to, like, have hopefully have an encounter with a Betrayer," but I didn't—

SAM: Oh, you did? That's cool.

LUIS: I mean I wanted to have that, but I wasn't sure if it would happen.

SAM: What a bold request! What a big request. A big swing to make on your first time on our stage and in front of those cameras! Amazing! And you rose to the the challenge so well!

AABRIA: Yeah!

LUIS: Well, and I thought it was going to manifest, I thought if it were to happen, that it would be a Betrayer God on the horizon approaching and us being like, "Fuuuck! What do we do?"

TRAVIS: Yeah, we're going to have to fight this thing, da-da-da.

LUIS: Yes! Yeah, and so that's what— That's how, that's what I— That's how I anticipated it would unfold but, um...

AABRIA: And then instead it was the greatest love story in the campaign.

TRAVIS: He came for you in your dreams.

MARISHA: Yep, he was like, "Hey, you want to go on a date?"

LUIS: Y'know, I didn't even know! That was all new too. I was like: okay let's go!

BRENNAN: Luis, Luis rules so hard, I have to say. Luis is the first person I was playing with for the first time in this, and Luis just like the, the— I want people to know all of the backstory, Elias, Evandrin, Luis's— uh, Zerxus's philosophy, that was all Luis, right? All of that was, y'know, was me— It was him creating this really profound character and me being able to just run with it. And y'know having the little plans that I had, when Luis was like, "Hey, y'know, I don't know what's coming." It was like such an incredibly respectful collaborator and was like, "Hey, y'know, I don't know what your plans arem but if there's an opportunity to interact with a Betrayer God." And I was like, "You don't say? *Well*, I think we can make this dream come true." Boy howdy, was it fun. But even within that, Luis was also like, "Here are Zerxus's beliefs about the cosmology of Exandria." And, as a performer, being so clear to state, "I want to explore someone with this belief. What he is right and wrong about I fully leave to you, and I will be satisfied whether his suppositions are correct or not." And I was just like, "Man, what an incredible gift." An incredible gift for playing. Y'know, talk about a first game together! It was just like, dude, Luis, my hat's off ad infinitum to you.

MARISHA: Here, here.

LUIS: Wow, thanks.

SAM: Yeah, second that.

AABRIA: Yeah!

LUIS: I mean I was brand new to almost everybody. I mean Marisha and I played *ages* ago, and Aabria and I played in the little mini campaign—

AABRIA: Woo!

LUIS: —that's online somewhere, I think?

AABRIA: Somewhere, yeah?

LUIS: I think it's somewhere...

SAM: Don't plug your side projects!

MARISHA: You dick.

AABRIA: Keep pedaling, Sam.

SAM: (huffs) I'm, uh, I'm 16 minutes into the ride, guys.

TRAVIS: Oh God.

MARISHA: Oh, yeah, I can pace.

TRAVIS: I think that was the thing that was just so devastating for me, was that y'know, when it was Luis up against, y'know, the Lord of Hells. Y'know, there was no like, "What are you doing here? How do I stop you? Your plans will not come to fruition!" It was, "I'm gonna save you!"

(laughter)

MARISHA: Yeah!

TRAVIS: I looked across the table, and you like— You were crazy! It was the best choice ever yeah!

MARISHA: Full, full "but I can fix him" vibes.

AABRIA: Yeah!

TRAVIS: Welll, who?

MARISHA: But, we're talking about the Lord of the Hells.

LUIS: (stuttering) Hm. It's interesting to me to see how kind of eroticized some of that became because—

AABRIA: Oh? Were you not watching what you were doing?

LUIS: I honestly... I mean it was, it was so confusing. And I saw because I wasn't expecting Brennan to be like, "Now he appears as Evandrin." And I was like whoa, like all of these that were... This is going to sound twisted, but I felt like at times the bond was, "You remind me of Evandrin." But then, I think the primary connection honestly was paternal and that was one of Zerxus's primary drives, was the need to be a good father in light of having been a missing father. And so, y'know, taking care of the Lord of Hells and looking out for him, to me, felt so much more paternal than romantic.

AABRIA: Some paladins really will try to atone the Lord of Hells instead of going to therapy, and that's wild.

(laughter)

LUIS: Daddy issues.

AABRIA: But it was so good to watch!

LUIS: Were there therapists at that time? Where there therapists in the Age of Arcanum? We all needed a therapist.

AABRIA: Yeah, no, for sure. But you were so good, and it was so devastating to watch. And, man, it was incredible. What beautiful choices.

MARISHA: Well, y'know, and kind of jumping off the paternal line. I mean, I feel like some of the more heart-wrenching moments were watching the dads, and just everything kind of going on with all of the moments of family and trying to figure out how to navigate having kids when the world is ending. So, I would love to hear Travis, I would love to hear you talk about, y'know, just Cerrit and how many of his flaws kind of did hit a little bit closer to home, but they weren't necessarily around like big massive blind ambition that a lot of the other characters had so— What was it like just really having children be the heart of your story?

TRAVIS: Yeah, it was— I mean, as we were coming up with these characters and some of our session zero talks, y'know. They're all these super-powered arcane-wielding characters. Sorcerers, wizards, bards. I was like, "Nah, we gotta balance this out with a rogue." We need at least one martial person that's like a check against all of this power that can, if he gets up close to you, can turn the lights out, right? Or, at least, keep his eyes open into what they're doing. And it was not anything that I was planning for, but in talking about it in the end of world scenario, the thing that jumped to my mind was the Jor-El story in the Superman mythology, right? A father that is seeing the ruin of the world come about. And even though he's there and he can monitor it, maybe he can even help influence it, the other part of that is, y'know, if I fail, if it doesn't work, what am I doing to make sure that my family, or at least my children, are safe? And so I thought that was just going to be a great little, like, a nice little layer, a little accent? And in no way did I think that Brennan was going to come for my fucking heart in the way that you did.

(laughter)

TRAVIS: With Kir, and Maya, and the sending stones, and just the cutest portrayal of the son ever. And having to balance really trying to keep a calm face, a steady voice, y'know, a grounded presence for your family that's looking to you going like, "Hey, is everything okay?" And even though it's not, you have to find a way to say, "Yes, it is. Or, it's going to be." Y, know, "I'm here for you." And so, y'know, that element of the story was amazing. But, as a new dad, y'know four years into it, I don't know how *new* it is, still but y'know. I was 100% seeing my son, and you know not trying to picture that sort of scenario playing out, but you're unable to sort of fight it off. And I have to say, y'know, I'm a pretty stone-walled player. I'm not the most emotional at the table. I certainly haven't been over the past seven years, but it cracked through in a way that I was not anticipating, not just, not just Cerrit's story but also Luis's and the relationship between Laerryn and Quay. Like, I was just a wreck. And so it was a crazy thing being that vulnerable at the table, especially in a miniseries! We're like, damn, y'all, we haven't even been playing this game for like 20 hours, and it's just twisted me up in the craziest ways. So, it was an incredible experience. It was very revealing to me, again, in that way that D&D can be the best therapy. And I wasn't anticipating that at all, So it was something I'll never forget.

MARISHA: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even watching back through the finale, and it's just— I mean, everyone at the table is just in tears, just ugly crying for six hours.

AABRIA: (laughs) Truly.

MARISHA: And there really were so many beautiful poetic moments that came out of this tragic tale. I mean, I will never forget, "Dad, why is your ring glowing?" when it comes to it Cerrit.

TRAVIS: (pained groan)

AABRIA: Oh my God.

TRAVIS: Evil!

MARISHA: Evil.

BRENNAN: Gotcha!

MARISHA: But what are some of you all's, like, kind of standout moments, especially now that we've had some time and are able to kind of reflect on it?

AABRIA: I'm gonna use this moment to, like, shine a little light on Sam here because when we first planned for the divorce couple, was like, "Oh! What a fun little side arc!" And we'll just get to snipe at each other, and it'll be cute to like occasionally try to, like, have roma— It was a knockdown, drag out, who can like hurt the other person's feelings more. And I have never been so thoroughly whomped than Sam making me ugly cry into my own hands. Every episode. Like, okay, well, I'm fully in my feelings, and I'm gonna fight him in the parking lot. Tight, tight, tight.

(laughter)

SAM: Yeah...

(laughter)

SAM: No, it was cool, it was cool because I went into it sort of thinking the same thing you were. Like, "This is going to just be fun to yell at each other and be cruel to each other." But once we started to play— Sorry, I'm out of breath, you guys.

(scattered laughter)

AABRIA: Okay.

MARISHA: Oh Lord.

SAM: Once we once we started to play, I realized that, like, the choices that I made in the character build and also in our backstory, It wasn't really, it wasn't really— Like, I— Everyone had these dark, dark, dark secrets that they were trying to conceal, and I had a little, a little of one. But I just thought it would be super cool if, like, my dark, dark secret was that I just really liked you a lot.

AABRIA: (sobbing)

SAM: And I really, I really missed you. And it felt as we as we got closer to the end that, like, that was the payoff that my character certainly needed. And also in a way yours, with a lofty goals as you had, to ground it into into a relationship was... I don't know, it just felt like the right path to go. And you were so amazing to play off of and to yell at, but also to kiss!

AABRIA: Oh!

SAM: And it was amazing to work with you and to be side-by-side when we did it. I would I wish we could have been like across the table from each other, just because I wanted to see your eyes more.

AABRIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah!

SAM: But it was nice to sort of nuzzle up next to you as well.

AABRIA: Oh that was—! It was so good. Okay, I'm emotional again. I'm gonna mute myself.

TRAVIS: (indistinct)

BRENNAN: I'll chime in with a little, a little fave, a little fave moment here. Just to give some love to our one absent member of the Ring of Brass, Mr. Lou Wilson.

LUIS: Yeah!

TRAVIS: Lou!

AABRIA: The best! The best!

MARISHA: Lou!

LUIS: Oh my God.

BRENNAN: The goddamn best. Let me tell you something. I've been friends with Lou for a minute now, and I will never forgive this man for jumping in and making me not only fall in love with— fundamentally come to recognize the, like, moral purity and heart of essentially, like, a wizard financier. And I don't know how he did it. He did, he did some kind of spell that you watch— It's the most— I think that's the thing, right, in terms of like the on the rails, off the rails of it all. In my head, and talking to Lou before the game, I was like okay, like we have we have our like wizard, like scientist Jurassic Park asked if they could, not that they should, and wizard politician with the memory magic, and then we have this wizard merchant. Y'know, the commander of the Vault of the commander of the vast wealth, the business manager of Avalir essentially. And I was like, yeah, greed, and da-da-da, this will be another way to kind of. And then Lou— I've played so much D&D with that man, and he continuously does the number one thing you're supposed to do in stories, which is surprise you with the inevitable.

TRAVIS: Yes.

AABRIA: Yes!

MARISHA: Mhmm.

BRENNAN: Do something you never could have anticipated, and then you go, "It could only ever have been that." Without ever rolling a saving throw— Also, y'know, the whole thing with the Hall of Prophecy is, of course, like no one was ever mad. No one went mad. They were, y'know, it was— That was a label put on them because they were saying things people didn't want to hear. And Nydas joined them in that, and he had the mania of someone who had heard a true prophecy. And the only reason Lou goes into that scene is because his best friend and brother is Zerxus. So he goes with him to accompany him to the Hall of Prophecy, and you can never anticipate it. And, all of a sudden, this ultimate pragmatist, Realpolitik guy in that final charge out of the gates of the Golden Scythe. And he's like y'know, "Gold be damned. The Ring of Gold be damned," and you just go like, oh, this is *so* utterly shocking and so *completely* earned and a story that— I don't know that I've seen like— I don't know, maybe the idea that someone in Nydas's position would just drop everything and go, "I'm awake now, and we're going to redo everything." Oh! Like unbelievable.

MARISHA: So good.

AABRIA: He's so good. Okay, jump in, I wanna again, talking with Lou as we were building our characters. We when were talking, he was like, "I either want to be your best friend or like mortal enemies." And I'm so happy we got to have, like, a moment of each because it— There's a trust that you need to have when you, like, really commit to like we're gonna do some PvP here. And I just, man, he's just so good, and it feels so good to, like, chase him when he's got like a big idea or a move. And then every speech he gave, especially in episode four. Like, ugh! How just phenomenal.

TRAVIS: So good.

AABRIA: So charismatic.

MARISHA: Yeah, it was quite fun because me playing Patia, and Laerryn, and Nydas. The, y'know, me, Aabria, and Lou. We all met together with Brennan, just the three of us.

AABRIA: Yeah!

SAM: *What?* What?

MARISHA: Yes. Yes.

AABRIA: Woo!

TRAVIS: (shocked sounds)

MARISHA: I don't know if you guys knew that!

LUIS: No!

MARISHA: But three of us met as kind of— Because it made the most sense in terms of this, like, political trifecta of, y'know, the Architect Arcane, your infrastructure, your financier, and then your kind of political knowledge keeper and seeker. So, the kind of three of us all, with these kind of converging goals, was just so fun. And it was, I remember us like sitting, y'know, at my dining room table being like, "Are we all, like, the most evil?" But I think, y'know, that was kind of revealed in the game that, y'know, that wasn't really the case at all. And y'know Patia kind of had her own moments of realization and reflection of realizing like, "Oh we've all made a tragic amount of mistakes, and we are all implicit in the events that are taking place here." But y'know seeing Lou kind of be this moral spearhead to really have such a 180 in the game, it was pretty awesome. It's pretty awesome, guys.

TRAVIS: Are we the bad guys?

MARISHA: Are we?

AABRIA: I was convinced Cerrit was going to kill me the entire time, and the only time I ever hid my iPad from you, Travis, was when I pulled up my little flowchart of— I went home, and like tried to figure out how to survive Cerrit attacking me.

(snickering)

LUIS: Oh man.

AABRIA: And I, like, had it pulled up just in case he turned and swung.

TRAVIS: I thought about it. I thought about it in that one instance—

AABRIA: (laughing) Yeah!

TRAVIS: —where you and I kind of squared off and I was like, "Did you really put the city, and all of the families, and all the people within it at risk to satisfy your curiosity?" But your answer was just so matter-of-fact! Like, "Yes, I did it." Wasn't like, "Don't question my—!"

AABRIA: (laughs)

TRAVIS: It was just straightforward, and I knew in that moment that it had gotten away from Laerryn. Right, like, it— She was so detached from where it was. So, it wasn't like, "Time to put this person's lights out." It was like, "I need to go get my kids out of the house."

(laughter)

AABRIA: Thanks for not killing me!

BRENNAN: Jumping in there too, because I just just to address that point that like— Yeah, me, and Marisha, and Aabria, and Lou met for sort of like the very politic— Like, that sort of political trifecta of the *real* dirt going on. I don't know if it ever actually got said. It got hinted at a lot, but something that people should know was true was that, y'know, the Drashari tithe, right, is like 25% of the city's ether. The other 75% is supposed to get put into the ground for the Replenishment, right? That hadn't been happening for many Replenishments in a row. Like, the past two or three Replenishments. I think we discussed that only like less than 5% of the city's ether was actually going to go into the ground for Domunas. This Replenishment, like, and the rest was getting carved up for the Leywright but also being funneled out to archmages in the city to, like, unnaturally extend their lives. That's what like Nydas was sort of— Y'know doing that back alley ether thing, all to like push the Leywright along, and sort of like bribe people, and do all this corrupt stuff. So, that was going on in the background. But I also want to talk about from a meta perspective, because I think a lot of like DMs might be listening to this. I think there's always an instinct of like secrets or backstory or, like, Christmas gifts, and all the kids need an equal amount of them. Like, well if Marisha has three secrets, then everyone else needs three secrets as well. But I actually really didn't want that to be the case because I think it was sign— It was important for me that there be a like Cerrit in the group that really didn't have that kind of dirt because to me you— In the story of like Avalir's downfall, I think you need the person— y'know, it's the classic quote of like... Uh... God, I'm gonna butcher it in my head, right now. The inaction of, y'know, quote-unquote good men. Or, the idea of like, I didn't have a secret, but I wasn't like holding my friends to account, or I wasn't looking in the right direction for where the corruption was. Like, that's as important a part of the story as the people who are doing the wheeling and dealing.

TRAVIS: Yep.

BRENNAN: So, I think having that reflected in the PCs was a really important aspect of like Cerrit's culpability. Y'know, there's— I was thinking about it, Travis, in like what is Cerrit's role in all of this? Or, like, just does he share culpability in this? And the way I sort of thought about it in my head was, like y'know— You have Patia and Laerryn and Nydas who are doing these corrupt background dealings, but for them it's like: well, we're maniacally obsessed with our, y'know, we have this tunnel vision on what we're trying to accomplish. What's your excuse? You're a good guy who's empowered to stop this! Why didn't you stop it? And actually having that question be significant of, like, yeah, you didn't have any quote-unquote corruption and yet...! And I thought that was important to have that represented in the PCs.

TRAVIS: Yeah, I loved that. Just to add to it. I mean, in my mind, the Ring of Brass is such a self-made, self-contained, y'know, grouping of very powerful individuals. But it was all about taking care of our aspects of this of the city, right? We're working together. We're going to keep everyone else in check, all of these really powerful wizards. The, y'know, all the archmages. And I think Cerrit was just as guilty of y'know just being negligent of keeping his eyes on everybody else. Y'know, you didn't want to turn inward and go, "What's the Ring of Brass doing? What are each one of these people doing?" Y'know, I think he was just looking outward instead of inward as well, so I think there's massive culpability there as well.

LUIS: Can I jump in real quick? There's just a moment that I wanted to share that I really love. And it's really quick, and it's— Marisha, when Patia kind of recorded, in response to what Cerrit said about us being selfish.

MARISHA: Mm.

AABRIA: Oh, yes!

LUIS: And then you just, like— Because I felt how that landed on you because I was right next to you, and then you just incorporating it into something that I thought was incredibly deeply revelatory for Patia. And I was like, "*Damn*." And it really like there's so many moments that all of you have done that are still with me, and I talk about it with my friends. And some of them don't even play D&D but I still will hold them hostage, and I'll be like, "Hey, you're, gonna listen to what we did and what these people did."

(laughter)

LUIS: And they will, y'know, they will endure that and humor me. But it's just yeah. I mean, I'm so impressed with all of you, and there's so many *moments* that have stuck with me. And, Brennan, I just want to say your capacity to dive into the NPCs that are significant to us, and to just bring such life to them was a gift, and I could watch you and Travis be, like, talk as like Cerrit and his son. I could watch that forever.

BRENNAN: Oh man! Dude! It was, it was— Uh, whew. Well, that's so profoundly kind to say. And what I will say is, in terms of like y'know— Because I think Lou made a very funny joke in the final episode, where he was like, "You should never have brought kids into this," right? He's like, "Never should."

(laughter)

BRENNAN: And there's this whole idea of like all the NPCs that you guys knew: from family that represented like what the actual threat of The Calamity was going to be, to all of your like underlings that we meet in the first episode that are there to kind of help build the world out but also tell us the station of these various characters. Like, all of these NPCs to help ground us, and motivate us, and do all that stuff. It made me want to jump back to a question, Marisha, you asked before of like: how the hell do you tell a story about a must-happen historical event told over four episodes? Like, how the hell do you do that without railroading? Because and I think that what people— The advice I would give to DMs out there because I think dms there's a conversation about Dungeons & Dragons about tabletop games online that is really dominated by this idea of player agency vs. railroads. Like, either you need to let people do whatever the hell they're gonna do. Or, if you want a plot and a story to be on rails then you have to remove that agency from them. That is, of course, a false dichotomy that's not true. And the easiest way to get around that, to have full player agency *and* be able to plot out a two episode, four episode, ten episode series is to let your players tell you who they are. And if your players tell you who they are, then you won't have to guess what they're gonna try to do. You will more or less *know* what they are going to do, especially if you're working with incredible character performers and actors like you guys. Like, so taking your backstory and taking the NPCs that you wanted. And that's why I— Truly, the way you avoid railroading is to do very intensive character creation because *those* are your rails, right? People will tell— People will *give* you their rails. They'll say, "Here's who I am. Here's what matters to me." And if you know who someone is, and you know what matters to them, you kind of know what they're going to do, or at least within a ballpark, right, within a certain set of parameters. And so, you know, it was far from accidental, and it wasn't *just* about the emotional stakes that you guys having these NPCs the more rooted to the world you were, the more that there were these NPCs around that made you guys feel grounded to this place in time, the more it became possible to plot out something that *had* to deliver a historical historically accurate narrative *and* do it in four episodes *and* give you full agency while doing it.

AABRIA: Hell yes.

MARISHA: So insightful.

SAM: Brilliant.

MARISHA: I love it so much. Brilliant. Well, you guys, there is obviously so much to talk about. This was such a massive beast to unpack that we are actually, kind of at the last minute, we're gonna do a little ExU Calamity roundtable discussion.

SAM: (gasping) What?

MARISHA: Mhmm.

SAM: Are you are you are you plugging a side project right now?

(laughter)

MARISHA: (laughing) I'm plugging *the* project.

SAM: Oh, okay.

MARISHA: (laughs) Yeah, we're gonna, y'know, all get in a room together and unpack this more. Lou will be joining us, as he was sorely missed today. So, there really is a lot more to chat about. So stay tuned for the full ExU Calamity Wrap Up.

SAM: Marisha, is that Wrap Up gonna be on Instagram stories? Or is it gonna be on LinkedIn chat?

TRAVIS: (incredulous) LinkedIn chat? Is that real?

AABRIA: Is that real? None of us are on LinkedIn.

MARISHA: None of us are on LinkedIn. I was hoping it would be on LiveJournal though.

SAM: Oh, good, good.

(laughter)

TRAVIS: Yes! Bring it back!

AABRIA: Oh golly.

BRENNAN: We'll see you guys on Xanga later this month.

AABRIA: Don't you try to do it with (indistinct).

LUIS: I still have MySpace somehow.

MARISHA: Yes, that will be on Critical Role's Twitch and YouTube.

SAM: (exaggerated surprise) Oh!

MARISHA: Looking like it's probably going to be, uh... Early July. Like, July 12th, I think is what we're looking at. We scheduled it really fast. Don't quote me. Just follow the Twitter.

AABRIA: Definitely July 12th.

MARISHA: Okay, it will definitely be July 12th.

AABRIA: No, don't listen to me, oh God.

MARISHA: Aabria said it. Uh... (laughs) So, yeah stay tuned for more, I mean, this. And just to kind of, like, cap this off. I can personally say that this is different from any other game that I've ever been a part of and played in. And I know when we all closed it out at the end, it truly did have that like summer camp vibes in a weird way, where just it crushed me to have to say goodbye to these characters and to not be able to continue sitting at a table with you all. But, like— So, just some experience that I will truly think about on my deathbed. So, you guys are just the best.

BRENNAN: Love you so much. I love all you guys so much. This is like an honor beyond words to be able to tell this story with you all.

LUIS and TRAVIS: Same. Same, same.

SAM: Ditto.

AABRIA: (softly) Yeah.

TRAVIS: I just want to do it again, so maybe we can keep destroying the world over and over again that seems to be the fun stuff.

LUIS: (laughs)

BRENNAN: Hey, well, I'll tell you what! Final girl Travis Willingham with Cerrit there.

AABRIA: Yeah!

SAM: That's right!

BRENNAN: I mean, fuck, y'know?

TRAVIS: (sings melody from The Little Mermaid when Ariel gives up her voice)

(laughter)

BRENNAN: Let's go, let's go!

(laughter)

MARISHA: So true.

SAM: Amazing.

LUIS: Come rescue me, Travis!

TRAVIS: I'll find you, Zerxus!

(laughter)

MARISHA: Well thank you all so much for joining us. Thanks to everyone who tuned in to listen to this. Feel free to check out ExU Calamity on our YouTube, if you haven't already, and we will see you all very soon. More where this came from.

TRAVIS: Yes, ma'am!

AABRIA: Yeah!

SAM: Is it Twitter yet?

(laughter)

TRAVIS: Oh God.

SAM: Bye, y'all.

(overlapping signoffs)